Packs-and-you!

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Packs-and-you!

Post  Walks with Wind on Sat May 12, 2012 3:21 am

Can I get a ruling on this please:

Cubs in a Pack?
Kinfolk in a Pack?
Non-Garou (like Bear, Rat, etc...) in a Pack?
Maybe a pack of only cubs? Smile hehe What a Face

I have talked to STs and other players at game about Cubs in a Pack and I have gotten radically different answers and reasons behind it. So an 'official' on the record answer would be great.


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Re: Packs-and-you!

Post  Sings Like Rain on Sat May 12, 2012 10:33 am

All the games I've ever played in had this understanding: Anything can be in a pack, but there are packs (meaning a group that works together) and patroned packs (that have a totem with benefits). Anyone/thing can be in a "pack", but not everyone/everything gets to be in a patroned pack with totem benefits. I've never seen cubs receive totem benefits in a game. Kinfolk can only get totem benefits with a camp specific Glasswalker rite.
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Re: Packs-and-you!

Post  Richard Baroke on Fri May 18, 2012 2:05 pm

ok -- how about we add 'Personal Totems' to this mix of Q&A?

I have been reading can I see no clear answer on the web aside from Garou CAN have both (person/pack) at the same time, gain the benefit(s) of both, however have to uphold the ban of both. (and the person/pack/sept/caern totems can not be the same in any combo)
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Re: Packs-and-you!

Post  Rizzo on Fri May 18, 2012 3:11 pm

Most games, and I'm pretty sure RA3R is one of them, don't allow Personal Totems. They're usually an alternative to having a pack totem, and most Garou who have them are looked at strangely for shunning the pack dynamic that's such a big part of their society. Also, there's nothing I've ever seen that suggests you can't have a Pack Totem that's the same as the Caern Totem. In fact, I've seen a couple games where there were packs dedicated to another spirit of the type of the Caern to honor it. (But not the SAME spirit as the Caern Totem. So if it was a Caern dedicated to, say, Rat, the pack would have a different Rat spirit that they followed, as the Caern Totem's duty is to the Sept as a whole. There are no such things as Sept Totems. The Sept is just the community of Garou that make up the Caern's inhabitants.)
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Re: Packs-and-you!

Post  HST Jacob on Fri May 18, 2012 7:53 pm

Personal Totems are a thing, that you can get, but I wouldn't suggest it for the same reasons Matt pointed out.

You can't have both a Personal Totem and Pack Totem, they will hate on each other and make you choose one or another.
You can follow the Bans of multiple spirits and dedicate time to them to build them up as allies though, they just won't be your totem.

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Re: Packs-and-you!

Post  Richard Baroke on Fri May 18, 2012 10:19 pm

What are the cost(s)?

I spoke to a few people and checked the web and got several different answers. (looks to the HST)

The reason I am asking is kinda easy to guess, no one wants Richard in there pack so might as well plan ahead.
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Re: Packs-and-you!

Post  Sings Like Rain on Sat May 19, 2012 12:50 am

The web is the enemy. Printed material is best to use.

Personal totems are double the totem cost.

So if you followed Granite (5 points for a pack) as a personal totem you would need 10 points of totem.

Some games don't let you have more than 5 levels of Totem period (most games East of Indiana actually), so you become limited to what you can get with personal totems.

Some games let you invest most points in such a case though since its such a huge social stigma to have a personal totem... so.. you know... downside and all.

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Re: Packs-and-you!

Post  Richard Baroke on Sat May 19, 2012 1:05 am

Frost in His Hair wrote:Personal totems are double the totem cost.
So if you followed Granite (5 points for a pack) as a personal totem you would need 10 points of totem.

So lets do some math here, using Granite as the example. If someone where to take 10 points in totem (to equal the 5 points needed), would that be Totem x10 on the sheet? so later if/when you joined a different pack you have OP on totem? or would you record Personal Totem x5 (for 10 xp) and be screwed later if swapped packs and need to buy normal Totem? or how is it done 'on paper' in the background section and XP log areas?

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Re: Packs-and-you!

Post  Abraxus on Sat May 19, 2012 4:08 pm

Advice piece one: Don't pursue personal totem - it makes people look down on your character. And if your main concern is that people don't like him, you should probably avoid things that will make people dislike him even more.

Advice piece two: There is a totem, only one, that is willing to patron a pack of one. (I think its Mouse, but not 100% on that) His benefit, Tagalong. His ban: Get in a pack. If you feel the need to go it alone, at least do it in the way that slights garou society the least.

Anyway, you only have the totem background. It normally goes from 1-5. Personal lets you take it higher. You don't get to split it up into "personal totem" and reg "totem". Whether all the point and dot swapping happens is entirely at the discretion of STs. In my opinion you should loose out on points as an additional downside of pursuing personal totem. Caaauuuse it's lame, especially in a LARP where there is no shortage of Garou to pack up with.
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Re: Packs-and-you!

Post  Shuey on Mon May 21, 2012 1:45 pm

So Rules aside for a moment (briefly I don't want to get off topic too much in a Rules thread). I am still learning more and more about the Lore of the World of Darkness (fascinating).

So for the lore, could you expand as to what about a personal totem would case the others of the sept to look down upon the person with the personal totem?
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Re: Packs-and-you!

Post  Richard Baroke on Mon May 21, 2012 1:52 pm

Shuey wrote:So Rules aside for a moment (briefly I don't want to get off topic too much in a Rules thread). I am still learning more and more about the Lore of the World of Darkness (fascinating).

So for the lore, could you expand as to what about a personal totem would case the others of the sept to look down upon the person with the personal totem?

‘lone wolf’ and ‘reluctant garou’ are bad things in the garou world. The name of the game is pack mentality and the bigger paw wins. So if you are a loner, you’re a reject because no one else wants you. (aka the reason I am looking into one is Richard my PC no one wants in a pack with them).

That’s my 2 gnosis, not sure if its really ‘lore’ based but still.
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Re: Packs-and-you!

Post  Endures the Storms Fury on Mon May 21, 2012 2:21 pm

To expand a bit on Richard's comment,

In the wild, a lone wolf is usually driven from his pack for whatever reason, pack is too big, loser of a challenge of the alpha, too old (most packs in the real world are a family mother father and their cubs), sickness, or too old to help the rest of the pack.

In the lore of oWoD, lone garou are often the same. For a werewolf having a pack is just a natural want. Others that share your struggles in a brutal world. A lone wolf is often looked down on because they don't feel that or can't get along well enough with anyone to work. Lone wolves are often bitter and angry creatures that are perfect targets to be corrupted by the Wyrm. Additionally, lone wolves show that they can't function as a part of the basic unit of Garou society, the pack structure.
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